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 Post subject: Ben's Sketchbook: Sunbeam Interior Study (Updated 9/10/2010)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:09 am 
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Scroll down to see the updates.

Kinda frustrated with this one. No mater what I do edges always give me trouble. I think I'm going to try again from scratch. Mostly curious if I got the lighting right, or if I missed anything.

Image

(Boy that looks funny on the default skin...)

Tools:
* Line tool
* Paint Bucket
* Gradients
* And too Much Gaussian Bur!




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 Post subject: Re: Ben's Sketchbook: Sunbeam Interior Study
PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:15 am 
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I think the lighting for the lights is right but what about a shadow on the opposite sides. I dunno - I look to you for those kinds of questions :oops2:


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 Post subject: Re: Ben's Sketchbook: Sunbeam Interior Study
PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 12:03 pm 
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Interesting image. :)

Here are some ideas that may (or might not) be of value.

Keep an eye on the angles relative to the light source.
http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/2981/angles01w.png


Here's a way to reduce the effect of too much corner rounding when blurring.
http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/4559/amblur01.png


You can have a nice soft diffuse patch of light have sharper edges where it drops off of an architectural edge.
http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/2443/edgyblur01.png


I'm looking forward to seeing how this picture develops.


Image
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Last edited by Sarkut on Fri Sep 10, 2010 4:58 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ben's Sketchbook: Sunbeam Interior Study
PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:25 pm 
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Sarkut wrote:Interesting image. :)

Here are some ideas that may (or might not) be of value.

Keep an eye on the angles relative to the light source.
http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/2981/angles01w.png


The beam is constructed in perspective like so. The top edge is constructed wrong. I was laying awake half the night trying to figure out how to correct it (There needs to be a fourth vanishing point). I'll fix it in the next image:
Image

Here's a way to reduce the effect of too much corner rounding when blurring.
http://img838.imageshack.us/i/amblur01.png/


Thanks for the tip! I'll look into alpha mask, I've never used it much.

You can have a nice soft diffuse patch of light have sharper edges where it drops off of an architectural edge.
http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/2443/edgyblur01.png


I see... that does look better. I had done it the other way because I theorized there should be a highlight on the edge, but I think I see where I went wrong.

I'm looking forward to seeing how this picture develops.


Thanks! Hopefully I can work out the bugs. :D




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 Post subject: Re: Ben's Sketchbook: Sunbeam Interior Study
PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 4:33 pm 
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I think Sarkut has pointed out some valid issues. When i look at that picture i see something made with great imagination. When i think about how to make it, i think about making it in many layers. One for the guide lines, and several for the deferent effects.


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 Post subject: Re: Ben's Sketchbook: Sunbeam Interior Study
PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:08 pm 
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I always try to find a reference photo (if I want to get all the highlights and shading correct). Not much help, I know. Sometimes you can find something similar in the house and shining it with a flashlight might help.


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 Post subject: Re: Ben's Sketchbook: Sunbeam Interior Study
PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 12:37 am 
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Perspective is usually Sargon's forte, but I'll go out on a limb and say it's not the perspective that's throwing things off. It's the scattering of light that's throwing it off. It should gradually be sharper to softer (almost fading out). Helen has the right idea, a photograph with a sunbeam through a window, is a great way to study nature, and how objects redirect lights.


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 Post subject: Re: Ben's Sketchbook: Sunbeam Interior Study
PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 1:47 am 
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Update. Basically started from scratch.

This time I went with solid colored regions, rather than outlines, slightly more work, but worth it, considering a realistic style in my goal.

Also shown is the correct construction for the sunbeams.

Image

[math] For the mathematically curious, I'm determining the top and right edges of the sun beams by determining where a plane perpendicular to the architecture intersects the same. [/math]

On to the lighting!




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 Post subject: Re: Ben's Sketchbook: Sunbeam Interior Study
PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 2:34 am 
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Oh boy! All that maths! I can never figure these things out. I need to be able to see it & copy it. I have books on this & my husband has tried to teach me but it just doesn't gel.

I'm glad that we have Sarkut & others who understnad these things. Once you make the changes Ben, it'll be a great image.


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 Post subject: Re: Ben's Sketchbook: Sunbeam Interior Study
PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 3:09 am 
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Not sure if this is the finished piece or not. I'm done for the night at any rate. Please let me know if anything looks odd.

Image




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 Post subject: Re: Ben's Sketchbook: Sunbeam Interior Study (Updated 9/10/2010)
PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 1:01 am 
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Hmm...the reflected glow on the innermost wall looks a bit odd. I think that *right* at the corners/edges, it should be a bit darker. Something odd with the lighting on the outermost wall, too, but I can't put my finger on it...


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 Post subject: Re: Ben's Sketchbook: Sunbeam Interior Study (Updated 9/10/2010)
PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 12:55 pm 
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I repeat what I said earlier. The light needs to start strong and fade into the background. Take a look at this photograph. http://weheartit.com/entry/705487 See how the light is much softer and then stronger?


Image


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 Post subject: Re: Ben's Sketchbook: Sunbeam Interior Study (Updated 9/10/2010)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 2:23 am 
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This latest image is a great improvement over the first.

It is interesting to see the lower right vanishing point being used to define
the internal structure of the sunbeam, as it relates to architecture of the room.

I believe that the outer boundaries of the beam should be determined
by the single vanishing point (the sun) as limited by the window opening.
(The green lines.)

The red lines here show how the light isn't conforming to that idea.
http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/7/hjgfjjffjjff.png

There appears to be a sort of inverted perspective
to the outer boundaries of the patches of light.

Alternately:
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/9921 ... ffjjee.png


Image


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 Post subject: Re: Ben's Sketchbook: Sunbeam Interior Study (Updated 9/10/2010)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 4:45 am 
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@Lance:

I don't quite follow what you're saying, could you provide a paint over?

Sarkut wrote:This latest image is a great improvement over the first.

It is interesting to see the lower right vanishing point being used to define
the internal structure of the sunbeam, as it relates to architecture of the room.

I believe that the outer boundaries of the beam should be determined
by the single vanishing point (the sun) as limited by the window opening.
(The green lines.)

The red lines here show how the light isn't conforming to that idea.
http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/7/hjgfjjffjjff.png


Ah, I also initially reached this conclusion. It's wrong, but not in a way that is immediately obvious. I found there were two issues with this way of drawing the sunbeam, and finding a solution that resolved them both kept me up quite late.

1) Consider what would happen to your green edges if the window was say, shaped like a triangle? The way you have the edges set up, the shape of the sunbeam would not change.

Image

2) Perhaps more importantly, the edge of the sunbeam on the floor is shown by the red lines here:

Image

But, how do you know that the edge should not really be the blue line? Or the green line?

The issue is resolved when you consider what is really happening:

Image

The individual rays are going past the points on the top edge of the window (The blue dots) and hitting (And stopping at!) the orange dots. It should be obvious that the orange dots trace a line, and it is the vanishing point of that line that we want to find.

The line traced by the orange dots lies both on the plane of the wall, and the plane traced by the red dotted lines. We want to find the vanishing point of the line which is the intersection of these planes. The green line is the set of all vanishing points which lie on the plane of the wall. It is parallel to vertical edges of the wall and goes through the primary vanishing point. The red line is parallel to the line traced by the blue points, in this case the horizontal edge of the window, and it passes through the vanishing point of the sun's rays. The vanishing point for the line of orange dots will be the only vanishing point found on both planes: the point where the green and yellow lines intersect!

Image

From here, consult my previous post as to how I drew the sunbeams.

On last thing, what if the window were some odd shape? You would set up the vanishing points like this (you have a few more now you notice, and they are all used to determine the edges on the various planes of the walls):

Image

I leave it as an exercise to the reader to figure out how to use those three additional vanishing points. :cool2:




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 Post subject: Re: Ben's Sketchbook: Sunbeam Interior Study (Updated 9/10/2010)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:03 am 
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Thanks for that explanation. :)


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